[uglydog]

I just bought a little Kel-Tek P-11 today as the price was too good to pass up. At $125 out the door for one that looked like it was never fired I tihink I did all right. Despite their low price tag, these guns are fairly durable, I have a KT P-40 which has a thousand rounds or so through it to date with only a single mishap, a round failed to fire but a second pull on the trigger set it off. This may not be a lot of rounds in a gun but for something in the $200 range, it has held up very well. Now I have a cheaper practice gun than the 40. I figure the cost of the gun should be paid back by the time I finish the break in/reliability period. Those looking for an inexpensive carry gun, I urge you to take a look at Kel-Tek. They are not pretty, nor do they have many bells and whistles but for an easy to carry and conceal weapon they are hard to beat.

 

[Paul F.]

Congrats! I'm looking to find such a deal on the P3AT for carrying in my suit pockets.

 

[hoashooter]

What is your group size at 5-7 yards???

 

[killerb]

I had a Kel-Tec P-11 and currently have a P-3AT. I carried the P-11 on a daily basis when I lived in Indiana. I moved back up to Michigan before the concealed carry legislation was passed. Being the pessimist that I am, I didn't believe MI would ever get CCW legislation passed and I sold it to a police officer who bought it for back up and off duty carry. The P-11 was a great carry piece. Very small and light with good capacity. It was and maybe still is the smallest, double stack 9mm on the market. I used the spring steel clip that goes on the frame, instead of a holster. It was awesome. Even the thinnest of holsters adds considerable bulk. I just clipped it over the waist band of my pants and wore my belt over the clip to hide it. You just drive out two of the pins that hold the frame block into the grip and replace them with internally threaded aluminum pins, then screw the clip on. Make sure to use some removable Loc-Tite, as shooting the pistol quickly backed the screws out of mine.

The P-3AT is a great carry gun for when you just can't conceal a larger, more potent handgun. I carry mine in a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster. It makes a rectangle shape about the size of a wallet in my back pocket. The pistol is the size of .22s, .25s, and .32s, but the .380ACP is considerably more potent than them. I carry hot CorBons in mine. 90 grainers, I think. Everybody that carries should have one or two of them. I may get another so that I can put a clip on one and use the other in a holster the way I have been.

 

[uglydog]

hoashooter,
I haven't shot it yet, I left on a fishing trip shortly after posting. With the .40, I can regularly put the 9 rounds in the 10 ring of a B-27 target at 10 yards without much problem. getting toward the 4th mag and the hands become a bit sore even with a Hauge rubber sleeve and a mag extension. I plan on changing all the mags on my 40 back into 9 rounders for belt wear and leave the 9mm mags flat for ankle holster use. Depending on the situation I will have several carry options available.

 

[ducks eliminated]

My wife just got her CCW (here in Mich) and we are looking at the P32 or P3AT for her. They look like great little utility guns. She will carry primarily when jogging.

 

[uglydog]

I would suggest the P3AT as the smaller calibers often have problems with reliable feeding. I don't know what the full reasoning behind this is but it doesn't seem to make a difference as to brand, model, or age of gun. I've seen it happen with a Seacamp .32 using the mandated Silvertips on down to the least expensive Jennings, Brycos, and Davis'. I would also check out the Kel-Tech Owners Group website (I think it is www.ktog.org my laptop has been on the fritz for a couple weeks so don't have the address handy) for ideas for smoothing out the trigger pull. The effort required is rather great for such a small pistol and the advice found is very simple, easy to follow, and gives dramatic improvement. The pull is not decreased much but the creep and grittiness is greatly reduced so it seems much lighter.

 

[Justin_Thompson]

Re: re: A new 9mm followed me home.

I would suggest the P3AT as the smaller calibers often have problems with reliable feeding. I don't know what the full reasoning behind this is but it doesn't seem to make a difference as to brand, model, or age of gun.

The .32 ACP is a semi-rimmed cartirdge, meaning it has a rim that sticks out past the base, but just slightly. And the rims don't really operate well with magazine fed semi-automatics.

 

[uglydog]

Justin,
I would be inclined to agree with you except that the .25 ACP which is considered a rimless cartridge shares much the same reputation with the .32 ACP as does the .22 LR (large rim) in the very small guns. In a larger package the .32 ACP is pretty dependable (so is the 22 LR) as is the .38 ACP and .38 Super which are also designated as being semi-rimmed cartridges. I would venture to guess the blow back operation of these smaller pistols and relationship of the slide mass to pressure curves and duration have much to do about this. Getting into larger cartridges brings a switch to a recoil operation which seems to work pretty well.

 

[Justin_Thompson]

http://www.answers.com/topic/kel-tec-p-32

The .32 ACP cartridge is also prone to a condition known as 'rimlock'. Because it is a semi-rimmed cartridge, a small portion of the extractor groove protrudes beyond the body of the case. This rim can catch on the extractor groove of the cartridge below it in the magazine. This generally slows the velocity of the slide and increases the likelihood of a malfunction. Rimlock is not a common occurrence with the P-32, but can occur if cartridges are not loaded carefully in the magazine. Magazines intended only for hollow-point ammunition may be modified to increase reliability and to prevent rimlock with the addition of a "flywire", available as an accessory from Kel-Tec. FMJ ammunition is not prone to rimlock; no magazine modifications are required for it to achieve maximum reliability.

 

[uglydog]

Thanks for the link Justin, I was not aware the P-32 was recoil operated, probably the reason the P-32 is said to be less likely to suffer from "rimlock" (brand new term for me) and as mentioned why the 38 ACP and 38 Super are rarely plagued by this condition despite having a rim. That said, there has been numerous comments on the 32 ACP Kel-Teks not operating as intended in the KTOG forum over the years; enough so that I don't think incorrectly loaded magazines is the only reason. The rimlock feature was interesting also but still does not address why the unrimmed 25 ACP nor the 22 LR with no extractor groove is also prone to similar malfunctions in the mouse guns (with the 22 LR, more meticulous cleaning than in the centerfire cartridges is also needed for reliability). I still believe it has much more to do with the type of operating mechanism, slide weight, and pressure curves. The presence of a rim may exacerbate the problem but I doubt it is the root cause. That a locked breach, recoil operated gun such as the P-32 has fewer of these issues tends to confirm my belief.