Charter Arms

Seymour Hiney · Nov 27, 2005

What do you guys think of Charter Arms, in particular the Mag Pug? Can you shoot .38 specials in the Mag Pug?

Fuelburns2 · Nov 27, 2005

As far as I know you can always shoot .38 special out of a .357 magnum revolver. They are the same diameter but the .38 is a little shorter so it packs less punch.

I haven't ever heard of Charter Arms but the unlimited lifetime warranty and several other features make it sound like a good choice.

Paul F. · Nov 27, 2005

There seems to be only two opinions of Charter Arms, depending on who you talk to. They either love them or hate them. Charter Arms has been around a long, long time. To me, that says something. Only ever owned one... way back in the 50's or early 60's... a .22 and it shot well.

uglydog · Nov 27, 2005

I haven't looked at Charter Arms much lately, I did own a couple of Bulldogs, a .22 revolver, and a .38 Spl snub nose and can say the quality was all over the place. Charter Arms has gone into bankruptcy a couple of times with the latest having a hiatus of several years before returning and each new owner has had a different idea on gun quality. The one Bulldog and the .38 were of fair quality at the least, the Bulldog was actually pretty good considering price. The other Bulldog and the .22 were real dogs and I could not get rid of them fast enough, in fact I almost couldn't get rid of them period. Timing regularly went out on both of them, the cylinder would not remain lined up with the forcing cone, and the latch mechanism prematurely wore. Granted this was 20 years ago but with the financial problems the company has had I haven't given them much more than a glance since. The quality may be there today but as I can get a comparable price for used S&W guns on several equivalent models I would rather go that route.

1gsplover · Nov 29, 2005

:?: Wasn't it a Ch. Arms Bulldog in .44 spl. cal. that the looney Berkowitz (sp?), aka Son of Sam, used to shoot those folks in NY? Now, THAT was a nutcase!
///olde 8) pharte///

Fuelburns2 · Nov 29, 2005

1gsplover said:
:?: Wasn't it a Ch. Arms Bulldog in .44 spl. cal. that the looney Berkowitz (sp?), aka Son of Sam, used to shoot those folks in NY? Now, THAT was a nutcase!
///olde 8) pharte///

That's not exactly the kind of advertisement that Charter Arms is looking for! Well, at least they have an unofficial spokesman. :wink:

1gsplover · Nov 29, 2005

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 8) :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

uglydog · Nov 30, 2005

It was an early series Bulldog that David used; like my first one it worked. If He would have had a later one like my second Bulldog, his neighbor's lab would have been telling him to jump off a bridge rather than kill others.

Seymour Hiney · Nov 30, 2005

Well the reason I was interested in Charter Arms as opposed to, say, Smith and Wesson is Charter has more rifling in their barrels to compentsate for the snub nose. Then again, I've never shot a Smith and Wesson snub. If I could shoot a Smith and Wesson 15-20 yards accurately I'd go for it.

Fuelburns2 · Nov 30, 2005

Slightly off topic but I shot a Ruger SP101 with a 2 inch barrel last friday and it was very accurate. I don't know specifically about Charter Arms or Smith and Wesson but I think that if the extra rifling was necessary then most if not all manufacturers would use it. S&W guns are among the finest in their price category and I wouldn't have any reservations about getting one. Snubs are more difficult to aim in general so I wouldn't expect much beyond 15-20 yards unless you're a pro.

uglydog · Nov 30, 2005

I am curious about just what extra lands and grooves "compensate" for and how this is accomplished. The greatest hinderances to snubbie accuracy are technique and heavy trigger pull. I've seen Bob Munden and Mossad Ayoob do some pretty decent shooting with them out to 100 yards but those guns had some trigger work done to them and the shooters had quite a bit of time behind the trigger. From personal observation, keeping a cylinder in the black on a B-27 silhouette target at 15 yards is pushing it for accuracy for most people with a snubbie, they just weren't designed for much more than across the room (and I don't mean ballroom) distances. Don't let advertising hype get the better of you; if more rifling were the ticket, the major manufacturers would have gone to it long ago.

hikerbum · Nov 30, 2005

The big problem with 2" or less barrels is the sight plane down the barrel. Almost all people have a hard time holding that short line of sight on target. Most people need at least 4" barrle to sight accurately.

Of course the 2" barrel (like others have said) is a 10 yard or so gun. somebody running at you, you are under great stress and fear, and HOPEFULLY, put a couple of the 5 or 6 rounds you are firing , SOMEPLACE into their body to slow them down.

IMHO

Paul F. · Dec 1, 2005

In my opinion the 2" or less guns are "belly guns" - that is, point and shoot and meant for 10 foot belly shots. :wink:

uglydog · Dec 1, 2005

As they come from the factory, I gotta pretty much agree with Paul F. on the range of snubbies. For some reason the triggers are heavier and have more creep than on the standard size revolvers. If one lightens the trigger up to 8#, takes the creep out of it, and learns proper shooting technique then decent groups at 25 yards is pretty attainable. Of course doing the same with a standard revolver pushes its effectiveness out to 50 yards...

Fuelburns2 · Dec 2, 2005

uglydog said:
As they come from the factory, I gotta pretty much agree with Paul F. on the range of snubbies. For some reason the triggers are heavier and have more creep than on the standard size revolvers. If one lightens the trigger up to 8#, takes the creep out of it, and learns proper shooting technique then decent groups at 25 yards is pretty attainable. Of course doing the same with a standard revolver pushes its effectiveness out to 50 yards...

I can't stand a heavy trigger myself, but my understanding is that snubbies have heavy triggers to reduce the chance of them going off in your pocket. That's the best reason to own a snub (self defense) isn't it? There isn't any other category of use where a snub is more appropriate than a full sized wheelgun IMO.

zombie · Dec 4, 2005

Paul F. said:
In my opinion the 2" or less guns are "belly guns" - that is, point and shoot and meant for 10 foot belly shots. :wink:

I'd generally agree with you. I can, however get excellent groups with my S&W 36 with a 1 7/8" barrel at 15 yards using Winchester 148gn LWC. Of course, the gun was made in about 1958 and the trigger is the best out of any revolver I've ever owned. :wink:

uglydog · Dec 5, 2005

fuelburns,
Even if it is true, 14# or greater for a trigger pull is totally unnecessary even if one chooses to not use a holster of any type for their snubbie. 8# double action is just as safe as has been demonstrated by this unofficial "standard" for other quality double action duty arms for decades. The sub-compact semi autos that can fit in a pocket mostly don't have triggers this heavy, including my stock Kel-Tek (10#). As difficult as it is for one to shoot a snubbed nose revolver accurately and the overwhelming number of owners who are not shooting enthusists, one would think the manufacturers would produce a gun that would be easier to shoot in these lines. Then again, the blissful ignorance of anything better by the owners is what keeps snubs so god awful.

soonerpgh · Dec 5, 2005

I don't know jack about the trigger pull, but I have a Taurus snubbie in .38 special. I got fairly decent with it and took a friend out shooting that had never shot anything in his life. Every time he tried to aim...well, let's just say I never could figure out where his shots were going. However, he tried just throwing it up and "shooting off the hip" and I'll be darned if he didn't hit the bulls-eye every time he did that. We were only shooting about 15 - 20 yards, but I had never seen anything like that in my life until then.

Seymour Hiney · Jan 15, 2006

How much would a trigger job cost? Could I do it myself?

claybird · Jan 15, 2006

Back in the late 70's I owned 3 Charter Arms 38/357's. They look nice but after a few hundred rounds they wouldn't make a pimple on a S&W's butt. In a 2 in barrel t he so called extra lands/grooves don't mean crap.
Sorry if you don't agree but thats my personal experience and feelings about them. Probably make a good gun to shoot a cylinder full of "light" loads and then put it in the night stand drawer. Empty and locked of course.