[tactical1]

Last night I ordered my first pistol (ironically enough) which will be a .45 Tactical Compact USP. Having said that I am looking for options as far as attachments go. I am interested in the Surefire 300 tactical light, night sights and hopefully a laser sight as well. Does anyone have any experience with this weapon or recommendations?

I have a lot of experience with shooting, I've done so all my life and I've been in the Army for quite some time. I went with the pistol I did because I wanted something capable of being daily carried in a decent caliber and not to far off from what I use with the Army.

Unfortantely, I have to wait a few weeks as I'm a lefty so it'll take a little longer to have it switched.

Thank you for any incite you can provide.

 

[UncleFudd]

Tactical1

:? Just curious, but why in the world would you put a laser site on a one of the finest pistols, especailly if it is to be used for SD? :?:

UF

 

[Guest]

Re: re: HK Tactical Compact USP

Tactical1

:? Just curious, but why in the world would you put a laser site on a one of the finest pistols, especailly if it is to be used for SD? :?:

UF

Is having a laser sight frowned upon? If so I was unaware. I just feel like I've spent the money on a good pistol and having a laser sight might be a nice addition. I really like the surefire 300 light as I have one for my service pistol but I've never really used a laser sight except for the PEQ on my M-4 which is only used with NVGs.

Let me know, I'm all ears to discussion as far as my options are concerned. I just want something I'll enjoy shooting and is functional as well.

 

[wwb]

If it's for concealed carry, the Crimson Trace grips are about the only viable option. Any other sort of light or laser sight may be okay for a nightstand gun, but would be worse than useless for concealed carry.

To each his own, but I wouldn't use either on a nightstand gun, either. They may help in some respects, but they are also a "Shoot Here" signal to the bad guy. Your muzzle flash is somewhat the same, but he won't see that until AFTER you've shot.

 

[Guest]

Re: re: HK Tactical Compact USP

If it's for concealed carry, the Crimson Trace grips are about the only viable option. Any other sort of light or laser sight may be okay for a nightstand gun, but would be worse than useless for concealed carry.

To each his own, but I wouldn't use either on a nightstand gun, either. They may help in some respects, but they are also a "Shoot Here" signal to the bad guy. Your muzzle flash is somewhat the same, but he won't see that until AFTER you've shot.

I agree but I've never been a fan of shooting blindly. I'm a confident enough shot that I'd put myself against about anyone in a robber/homeowner shooting contest. Not to mention, I don't have to turn the light on if I don't need too.

 

[uglydog]

The tritium night sights are definitely a good option, I have a fiber optic/tritium set on all my duty/defense guns. I have a couple of different rail mount lights for my duty and defense guns too, one Surefire of some sort, and two Streamlights. One of the latter is an LED which is fine as it seems to throw a "whiter" light that seems to be a little more disorienting than the standard halogen. The halogen throws a more concentrated beam and lights up a target at a longer distance though, at least with my eyes, in my opinion. I just installed a Lasermax internal laser in my carry gun, it is too new to have formed an opinion yet. For the USP you may be stuck with a laser intergral with the light as I don't recall any other type available for the USP. I have used both lasers and rail mount lights in training enough to know they are not a "Shoot Here" sign by any stretch of the imagination if used properly; at least not any more than any other light. I find the rail mount lights to be very handy as it leaves both hands on the gun for best shooting and allows one to open doors and balance oneself without loosing the ability to light up an area if needed.
As an aside, the benefits of a light is very great as it allows one to see what it is they are shooting at. In the dark while one's adreneline is pumping, a room looks very different. One begins to wonder if that darker shadow in the corner is an intruder or just a dark shadow. With a light, one can quickly determine which it is and respond accordingly. Without a light, you have to make a guess and it could be embarrassing either way. Same with a laser, one can use it to aim more accurately, especially when in an awkward position. It really isn't much of a deterent as one seldom looks at their chest when confronted with a threat but it can be a boon to the person holding the gun. As with any tool, one can do amazing things with it if they know how to use it. On the other hand, if one does not know the basics, they can cause themselves no end of grief.

 

[UncleFudd]

UGLYDOG;

I agree with much of what you say especially about a good light. In fact I believe you gave very good reasons for the use of good lights.
There is no sub for a good light and the ability and professionalism in knowing how to use them.
BTW, it is no easy matter and as you know takes excellent and knowledgeable instruction and lots and lots of practice to become good with lights and guns together.

However it is apples vs horse turds when comparing a surefire to a laser lite.
In my opinion, there is NO use for a laser sight on a SD gun for any reason. They are a toy and fun but expensive to play with but have no use in sighting and shooting under duress.

I've heard all about the "shoot me" stuff and even seen it demonstrated on more occassions than I care to recall. Yes a bad guy could follow your beam in a smoky room and all that but in my experience things will be happening so fast no one will have time to look for a laser beam in a smoky room.

I'm talking about being able to get your gun on target under ALL circumstances and get it in action as fast as you can accurately. You cannot do this and certainly not quickly with any kind of laser site. I don't care what your physical condition is if you are able to bring a handgun to bear, you can do it faster and more accurately with open sights under all circumstances period.
Not to mention the possibility when you need it more for the light to wink out on you and you better believe it can and will happen and just when you need it the most.
I have been able to prove what I am saying beyond a doubt on many occassions and for several LE depts as well as for some excellent and very professional firearm training orgs around the country.
It is difficult to do or show or to explain much on a post like this, but I can and have done so too many times and not been refuted for me to ever put one on a gun of mine and depend on it as one of my most definitive and necessary tools.

In fact, I can get you to shoot your own gun quicker and more accurately with your open sights than with a laser sight, (unless you are blind or sight impaired) under which circumstances you perhaps should not be using a gun for SD in the first place).

Let there be no doubt at least from my position, they are not for the real deal called self defense.

Just a few years ago I was involved with a very large LE orgwhose leadership was considering making the laser sights allowable for officers to install on their duty guns. They in fact did so for a short time in spite of the admonitions to the contrary.Their were 89 guys and gals who installed them and showed up for initial quals which they had to do with the new sights. The standards were the same as with open sights.
Well, there were 13 guns or sights I should say out of the 89 that failed for one reason or another on the very first try at quals.
Nuff said!!!

 

[uglydog]

Hey UncleFudd,
I don't disagree with your opinions on the lasers and how imperitive it is to learn to use the standard sights either, just that in my limited usage so far I have seen some advantages to a laser in select circumstances. As I mentioned, when shooting from an awkward position, a laser seems to be able to increase hitting to a large degree. One example I'm thinking of is one handed shooting when the one hand is unable to assist such as when holding a door with a self closer that opens towards me. If there is much of an angle, it is difficult for me to properly use the sights and still maintain balance as I am generally crouching. I liken this to using a Holosight type aiming device on a long gun; if the target is in the O-ring, you will hit it regardless of where your head is in relation to the stock. I also have seen the use of lasers to help those who are not really "gun people" to better learn the mechanics of shooting. Having that dot on the target initially gives the shooter the confidence they can do the task. Then, turning it off is not as big of a mental barrier to decent shooting. Again, the ability to use the standard sights well is a basic skill that must still be mastered. That is why I recommended the TFOs to begin with. Sorry if my earlier post wasn't clear, to reiterate I feel the standard sights are very important and the first and best money spent would be to install some sort of night sight as they should always be there in working order. A rail mount light would be my next choice as a light is always a good thing to have and one on the rail can free a hand up for other things (unless you have three or more arms and hands, then you could skip the rail light). The laser is the last item I would consider and mostly for special circumstances. It is not something I'm considering to displace the basic equipment/skills but as a tool to suppliment them. And to be fair the jury has not even reach the deliberation stage, let alone a decision.

 

[UncleFudd]

I won't disagree as you have had the actual experience and it was a better solution at the time and under those circumstances.
I've never haad that happen and I did not have the laser to consider.
If you did and it worked for you how can anyone dis it.

Hats off to those who have had to do it when trained for it and called upon to geterdone.

Take care my friend.
Sounds like we would have some good stuff to kabitz.

Merry Xmas

UF

 

[Guest]

does anyone know if you need the surefire adapter for the USP tactical compact or will it fit as is?

 

[wwb]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion concerning laser sights & tactical lights. I can see where they may offer an advantage, but I just can't get past the "shoot here" aspect. I've killed several NVA at night by waiting for them to fire first, and firing at their muzzle flash (and then crawling VERY quickly to a different spot). Our NDP was always set up with primary and secondary positions. Sometimes the holes didn't seem deep enough, but you could always rip the buttons off your fatigues and get about 1/8" lower.....

 

[Paul F.]

Lasers and lights mark the shooter as well as the target.

 

[Guest]

Well guys, I got my pistol in (much sooner than expected I might add) and it is absolutely amazing. I still can't figure out if I need the adapter for the light or night. It looks as though the HK has some what of a "rail" but I'm not sure if it's enough to accomodate. Does anyone know?

 

[uglydog]

You will need an adapter if you are going to use a light with a Weaver style attachment. I think there may be one or maybe two style of lights that have the H&K style attachments but I can't remember. If anybody does, it would be Surefire but probably not in the lesser priced units.
Lights and lasers used improperly or of low illuminating power are "targets", adequate lights and lasers used correctly (and it is a very simple process to learn) are not with a good light being able to temporarily distract an opponent. This has been proven for a couple of decades at least, since the old Kell-lite came into being and further proven with subsequent designs. The old 2-3 cell lights used by Barney Fife were long shown to be of too little brightness to do much more than be a minor irritant, this was the whole reason for holding the flashlight away from the body. When you take the trip through the house to check on the "bump in the night" that wasn't definite enough to call the police, some sort of illumination is needed and whether it is on your gun or in your hand, you will need to use it at some point. At least a light attached to the gun means you will have a light available (how many times is the flashlight that is always in the drawer/on the nightstand really not there) and allows for two hands on the gun for better gun control. If there actually turns out to be a threat, with the main beam of light being on the same axis as the bore, one is ready to shoot almost as soon as the light hits the target. In any event, a light on the gun or in the hand far beats out turning on the room lights.

 

[Guest]

Totally agree and thanks for your help. I don't buy cheap stuff and have had a Surefire on a weapon during my last deployment that worked great. There's a time when you use the light and a time when you don't. Now I just need to get some rounds through this thing.