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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My early 20's daughter was assualted 3 days ago. She had been after me before to get her a pistol and ccw permit and teach her to shoot. In this case she had to fly for business so it would not have helped. I am going to give in and do it now. My question is this. I want to get her a semi auto, am thinking 9mm. She is 5'3"ish and medium build. I want something to hold 10 rounds minimum and not have a great deal of recoil. I am open to suggestions as to what semi autos are very reliable and what calibers if not 9mm. Would rather not go to the .45 or .40 for recoil reasons. Give me your input you experts. Does a 9mm have enough stopping power in self defense situations?
 

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John;
First, I am so sorry to hear about your daughter and I sincerely hope she is OK and has gotten the help necessary to deal with the situation. My heart goes out to you and your wife as well as to your daughter. I cannot imagine a more horrible encounter nor a more difficult set of circumstances to have to deal with. Stay strong my friend and our prayers will be with your family.
I have had the opportunity to work with families and individuals who, like your daughter have been the victims of various en sundry attacks. Also some who are or were being stalked and were therefore terrified about the situation and needed help with solutions. So I have heard pleas for assistance just as with you on many, many occasions over the past 25 years.
I am not a doctor, I am a firearms instructor and counselor for LEO and civilian alike and I have been involved with the CCW program in AZ since before it became the law. I guess what I am saying is that I have considerable experience with questions and situations just like yours and I think I may be able to help you with some answers and perhaps not all of them you will agree at least at first blush. But I will not sugar coat anything nor will I attempt to sell a bill of goods.

My first question is why you feel a gun is necessary now? Also, how much experience do you have with forearms and again, how much does your daughter have with guns in general and specifically hand guns?
Where will she keep said gun and what do you feel her primary needs are or will be in the near future?
Do yo or she have experience with the laws in your area concerning the use of firearms in self defense? More importantly do you or she have knowledge of the laws in your area concerning "the use of deadly force"?

The reason that I ask is paramount to deciding not only whether she needs a gun but also what type will be best for her and then the decision concerning caliber will be much easier to formulate. It is not wise at this point to buy a gun especially if it is a "reactionary" decision. Don't get me wrong, I think nearly everyone should have a gun(s) if they want them. But what you are asking is so much more specific and needs careful planning to arrive at the best solution and that will include training and practice and I mean a lot of both.

If you will provide some detail, I will do all that I can to help you with every bit of this and I am certain that you will not be disappointed. I have quite a number of people both men and women whom I have assisted that have had tremendous results and some who have since survived fatal encounters from their experiences. (Including a police officers wife who survived an attempted rape in their home)

If you are not comfortable with all of this on the forum beyond the gun selection, please feel free to PM or e mail me to discuss further it makes no difference to me nor to my help in answering your questions.

but for now, I would advise not buying a gun until you have more information and I would be happy to provide my experience in deciding that, if that remains your only question.

Good luck and God Bless you and your family.

UF
www.caswells.com
www.caswells.com
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Fudd I have quite a bit of experience with guns. See I'm kind of an older guy, the over 50 crowd and have been shooting for over 45 years now. I've shot rifles, shotguns, and pistols and own quite a number of firearms myself, and have been shot at twice and stabbed once. As for my daughter. She will not be given a gun until I am certain she is emotionaly ready to handle it. However I do want her to be able to protect herself if the need arises again. As she becomes more open and shares more of the details of the attack with us, as she did yesterday, I am fully committed to training her to use a pistol for self defense and getting her one. She will be trained with many hundreds of rounds and many hours on the range by me personally before she is given her weapon to carry. Then she will take the CCW course and get her license to carry before she is allowed to have her protection. I will also be enrolling her in self defense classes on how to defend herself without a weapon as well. The perp should have been arrested yesterday as he did flee out of state but they knew where he was going. I fully intend to arm my daughter with the knowledge, skills and tools to take care of herself if she ever has to again. I hope that answers your questions. Yes she starts therapy tomorrow to help heal the emotional scars. The scumbag is damn lucky he fled and didn't have to face daddy because it wouldn't have been a pretty sight for him. Any father who has a daughter should never have to go thru this. These perverts and assualters are nothing but scum and need to be dealt with by the courts in the strongest manner possible. But since the police (and they have been nothing short of wonderful and supportive) cannot be everywhere guarding everyone, it is up to ourselves to protect ourselves from these animals.
 

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Thank you SIR;
I understand your feelings as a father and citizen.
I too have a daughter and know the feelings of protectiveness where she is concerned and regardless of how old we/they get, it never goes away.
I could not agree more about the dirt balls we are having to deal woth today and how much they are able to get away with in crimes they commit and that include crimes againt persons.
In my business I get to work with and train LEO and listen to what they are up against when it comes to our laws protecting the criminals.
BUt not to get side tracked and back to your original question.
You asked specifically about the autp pistols and personally as well as professionally I think that is the best. For many years the old axiom has been to go with revolvers if you want the gun to be fool proof. That is not necessarily the case any more and over time the auto loaders have become every bit as reliable of not more so than the revolver so I do not hesitate to recommend them to anyone and nearly everyone.
Your question also included the 9MM and its' power and therein I have no doubt as well. I carried the 45 for years and it saved my life once and the other fellow is no longer with us.
I had nearly or perhaps a little over 400,000 rounds through my lightweight Commander before I retired it in favor of the 9MM in the same gun or frame. I built my own lightweight commander style 1911 in 9MM because I could not find a factory gun like it and I did not want to change a single thing about the gun I carried for so many years.
I have now traded it for a new Springfield Armory EMP 9MM. I have about 10,000 rounds through it since I began carrying and it has performed flawlessly out of the box without a single hiccup.
You said you will see to it she shoots a lot of ammo and theirin lays the key to success. Accuracy is the critical term and end product and too much power can foil any chance of hitting what we are forced to shoot at. The 9MM using the 147 gr HP will stop anything it is used against as well as any round will or can do. But most importantly IMO it is also the cheapest ammo to buy for practice and the most available right now and has an excellent choice of ammo selection.
The thing about the EMP is its' size and my ability to hide it on my person. A woman has fewer choices of carry devices so size will be very important to her.
There are of course many other 9MM frames smaller but not with the life limit of the 1911. Some of the better, small guns are the KAHR and even the Keltec.
If you have a range in your area that has a rental program, take her to the range and let her handle as many of the giid ones as she can. It is the best possible solution. If not then as yu already know with your own experience, get her to the gun shop to handle the different models.
Good luck and Godspeed my friend and pray she or we never again have to use them even though we stay prepared.
Let us know if you will how she is doing and what she chooses for her carry gun.
I know what you mean about the over 50s as I am now pushing the 70s real hard. But I still shoot 150 to 300 rounds three times a week in practice, not counting the classroom demos.

UF
www.caswells.com
 

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I'm approaching this as a former gun dealer.
When I read your original post I kept reading "I want a semi auto . . ." and "I want something to hold 10 rounds . . . " I don't mean to offend you, but this is the wrong approach to getting your daughter a handgun. I have seen too many frustrated men trying to buy a gun for their wives, daughters, girl friends, who are trying to buy what is best for them, and not what was best for the intended shooter. I've seen men get mad when their wives could not work the slide. Easy for them, but their female "other" didn't have the arm strength or technique to work the slide. Now the woman is getting frustrated and angry. Sir, you should let your daughter handle and shoot different guns, including revolvers, to see what is comfortable in her hand, and what she can shoot the best.

As UncleFudd said, automatics are pretty dependable today. I carry a Glock. However, an auto can still jam. Does she have the "cool" to clear a jam in a life threatening situation? Why 10 rounds as a minimum? Most gunfights have less than 3 shots fired, total. Real life situations are not like the movies and TV. High cap guns are fine for TV cops going up against 20 drug dealers at once, but this doesn't happen in real life. Most folks are well covered with a 5 or 6 shot revolver. What is comfortable in her hand? Maybe a revolver grip, which can be changed to suit her, is better (wood, rubber, finger grooves, no groves, etc.). It doesn't have to have a magazine running through the center of it. No magazines to load or have problems with, it's all one piece. Men take this stuff for granted, especially someone who has been shooting for years, but it can be a lot for a woman first starting out.

I'm not pushing revolvers, however, you should be open to this if she likes the feel of them over an automatic. You said you were open minded regarding caliber, so should you be on the type of weapon. You've been married long enough to know a woman is NOT going to practice with something she thinks is uncomfortable. Right? (You don't have to answer that out loud. :mrgreen: )

I would not be concerned over recoil. Most women know nothing about it, therefore, it is not a major factor. This may sound dumb, but my wife's firearm instructor told her to focus on the front sight, and that is what she did. She still carries the .357 that she learned on, 15 years later. She likes shooting my .45 Glock the best. She says she likes to "feel it go off" and she likes the "nice big holes." Paxton Quigley runs a firearms training school for women, and she said the favorite two guns her [female] students like the most are the Ruger GP100 (a .357 mag.) and the 1911 (.45 ACP). The guys that say get something small for the little lady don't know what they're talking about. Women can handle it. They have less to "unlearn" than the men when it comes to firearms.

9mm v .40 v 45 v .38 v .38+P etc., etc., etc. Every caliber has its fans. 99% of them have never had to shoot anyone, or has ever been shot. Bullet placement is the key. LEOs used the .38 Special effectively for about 70 years or so. Back then, however, they trained them to shoot. Six shots was enough. The military went to the 15 round Beretta so almost every law enforcement agency had to have them, too. Then the 9mm wasn't a good enough man-stopper, so they've gone to the .40. Now the military is looking at .45s again. They can do this dance forever. A .22 put in the right place will stop a man. Bigger is just better. More shock, bleeding, etc. Bullet placement is the key and always will be. So she has to practice, practice, practice. So make sure that she likes the gun -- not what you think is the best gun. If she likes the 5 shot Ruger SP101, then great -- let her get it. If she likes the Glock 23 the best -- great let her get it. Just let it be HER gun. She'll practice more and shoot better.

You might even want to start her on something like a Ruger Mk. II or III, or a Browning Buck Mark in .22 LR. Easy to shoot, inexpensive to practice with. .22 autos are always going to jam on occasion, so she will have practice clearing them. Lots of shooting time, not a lot of money. Then move on up to a centerfire caliber.

A K-frame S&W or Ruger SP101 is good because she can start out with .38s and then work up to .38+Ps and who knows, maybe .357s?

The new Ruger SR9 has a slim grip yet still holds 17 rounds of 9mm. The Ruger 345 also has a slim grip and has 8 rounds of .45 ACP.

The FBI went to .40 cal. Glocks, the 23 and the 22. Nothing has been tested and tortured as much as the Glocks, and they keep right on going. 50% fewer parts than a Beretta or Sig, therefore, less to go wrong. The G-men chose them for a good reason.

Bottom line: No one here can tell you what is the best gun to get. Give her educated advise, but let her decide.

Lots of things to think about. Good luck.
 

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You need to listen to roadkill bill!!! He`s the smartest and wise`est person on this forum. He knows everything!!! Just ask him,he`ll tell ya.
 

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I believe that when she has recovered more you should take her to a gun range and rent seversal different guns for her to try. Find out what she likes and is comfortable with. Then perhaps hire an instructor for her to work with.
 

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If she gets a semi-auto, be sure she gets an UPLULA. That is the greatest little gadget for loading mags ever. I can load 2 15 round G19 mags in less than 45 seconds with it and the last couple of rounds just slide right in. Especially for a woman it's a great gadget.
 

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I'm very sorry that your daughter had to go through that experience.

For a beginner, man or women - I'd say to do this:

1. Go to a NRA beginners school - they are taught all over the USA. If you don't have one close - most ranges have beginners classes.

2. Go to a gun range and rent several guns in different calibers to shoot.

3. Let her pick the gin that feels and shoots good for her.

4 Consider how and where (on her person) she will carry it.

Blend all this knowledge togeather to let her select her own gun.
 
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