Hi guys, I'm looking for a couple good pistols, one in .22 and the other in either .40 S&W or .45 acp. The .22 will be for practicing and working on my form (I'm a shotgun guy and have fired a revolver once). I held a Walther P22 and liked the balance, but not the short barrel. I also tried a Ruger (nice, but much more expensive) and Beretta (in general bad taste). I also liked the Walther P99 in .40 and a Springfield GI stainless in .45. Both had good balance but the SA felt like it weighed twice as much. I held the Glock (don't remember the model) and just didn't like the balance or noise it made. The larger caliber gun will be a home protection piece until I can move to a better part of town; as such it will be the first line of defense for the three people in my household. Reliability trumps all other factors in this matter. What would you suggest I get? I would like the keep the price of .22 < $300 and larger gun <$750. Thanks a bunch and I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings about a particular gun brand.
New guy looking for advice on a couple good pistols.
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I'm a 1911 guy... but, based upon what you say, I concur with the double action wheel gun. Much smaller learning curve and more reliability in less than perfectly trained hands. :wink: Save the autos for later, as you become more comfortable.
Personally, I do not believe in "training small" and "using big." If you get the .22 - use it for fun. Once you have whatever you decide on for protection... practice with THAT gun.
Personally, I do not believe in "training small" and "using big." If you get the .22 - use it for fun. Once you have whatever you decide on for protection... practice with THAT gun.
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.357 magnum revolver or Springfield Mil-Spec 1911 (you can get a coversion kit to change a 1911 over to .22LR)
http://22lrconversions.com/
http://22lrconversions.com/
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I also recommend .357 revolver.
Look at Smith and Wesson first and if the price isn't right maybe consider Taurus. The used S&W market is a great way to find a deal on any caliber.
Look at Smith and Wesson first and if the price isn't right maybe consider Taurus. The used S&W market is a great way to find a deal on any caliber.
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I'd suggest Ruger. They don't cost an arm and a leg and they're workhorses. I've been told that they'll handle full powered rounds and still go strong, while S&Ws will tend to loosen up from the generated power.
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Rugers are good guns but the few (3) I've handled had really heavy triggers. That isn't good for someone who won't practice with it much.
EDIT: All three Rugers I handled were snubs. The larger revolvers may have better triggers.
EDIT: All three Rugers I handled were snubs. The larger revolvers may have better triggers.
I haven't had the chance to go by the gunstore (I'm supposed to be working), but I can tell you that I'll probably practice at least once a month, as that's how often I go Sporting Clays/Skeet/Trap shooting. What about finding a used Security-Six, are they good to learn on? The GP100s I saw on Gunbroker were in the $300 to $400 range. Is that acceptable? You might detect that I'm a little partial to Rugers, and you'd be right.
Ruger revolvers are good guns, the Security Six is similar to the mid-size K frame S&Ws while the GP100 is closer to the N frame. The mid-size frames from any manufacturer can loosen up with a farly steady diet of hot .357 loads while the large frames were made for the heaviest .357 rounds. I am not an authority on Rugers but have been around them a bit. I thought the Security series triggers were capable of being fairly easily worked on but the GPs were much more difficult. Used S&Ws and Security Sixes will run about the same and are probably the best buy around. I wouldn't look at any other comparably priced brand as I think one can not do better. Both S&W K frames and Ruger Security Sixes can be found rather inexpensively for under $300. The GP 100s are a bit more and I think $300-$350 would be a fair price.
As for your original question, for a .22 I like the Browning Buckmark and to a lesser extent the S&W 22A. They are both a pain to take down to clean but fortunately they are pretty rugged and can go a long time between cleanings. the Ruger .22/45 is another good pistol with a more "conventional" grip angle.
If I were starting from scratch, I would look at a centerfire pistol model that has a .22 LR conversion unit for it. I like a .22 for training and practice as $10 buys you 500-550 rounds of ammo to shoot vs $18-$20 for 50. The minimal recoil, muzzle flash, and noise of a .22 LR makes learning the basics and developing proper form much, much easier and quicker. Learning all this on the same frame, action, control placement, and with the same trigger as your protection gun is hard to beat. Just make sure you also run a box or two of centerfire ammo through it regularly too.
In the centerfires you mention, I like both the Walther P99 and SA 1911. I bought 3 S&W 99s (the Walther with S&W badging) in .40 S&W from a police trade in and they were good guns. They were more than adequate for a HD role and are actually rather accurate. The SA 1911s are the best buy in a single action Colt style auto. I personally would spend a little more and go with the Loaded series as I feel there are some features that make for a better shooting gun but there is nothing wrong with a Mil-spec or GI.
The cost of .45 ACP and .40 S&W have really narrowed recently and it is tough to say which one is cheaper; $2 per hundred at Wal-Mart seems to be the norm. Choosing between the two becomes more a matter of gun fit, the 40 is a little shorter providing for a slightly smaller grip while the .45 is a little longer and maybe fatter. The most economical centerfire is a 9mm and it is an acceptable defensive arm. Surplus ammo is down right cheap and with good expanding bullets it gives up little for protection. Considering the lesser recoil and noise compared to the .40 and .45 ACP, it may be a better choice if you are going to be able to practice only a time or two a month.
In any event, a gun should not be your first line of defense. Adequate outside lighting, elimination of hiding spots near the house, not leaving items like bikes, lawn mowers, trimmers, etc laying around in the yard, good locks on doors and windows, and actually USING them will go much further than a gun. A yappy dog is also a good deterent regardless of size as noise is the enemy of any intruder.
As for your original question, for a .22 I like the Browning Buckmark and to a lesser extent the S&W 22A. They are both a pain to take down to clean but fortunately they are pretty rugged and can go a long time between cleanings. the Ruger .22/45 is another good pistol with a more "conventional" grip angle.
If I were starting from scratch, I would look at a centerfire pistol model that has a .22 LR conversion unit for it. I like a .22 for training and practice as $10 buys you 500-550 rounds of ammo to shoot vs $18-$20 for 50. The minimal recoil, muzzle flash, and noise of a .22 LR makes learning the basics and developing proper form much, much easier and quicker. Learning all this on the same frame, action, control placement, and with the same trigger as your protection gun is hard to beat. Just make sure you also run a box or two of centerfire ammo through it regularly too.
In the centerfires you mention, I like both the Walther P99 and SA 1911. I bought 3 S&W 99s (the Walther with S&W badging) in .40 S&W from a police trade in and they were good guns. They were more than adequate for a HD role and are actually rather accurate. The SA 1911s are the best buy in a single action Colt style auto. I personally would spend a little more and go with the Loaded series as I feel there are some features that make for a better shooting gun but there is nothing wrong with a Mil-spec or GI.
The cost of .45 ACP and .40 S&W have really narrowed recently and it is tough to say which one is cheaper; $2 per hundred at Wal-Mart seems to be the norm. Choosing between the two becomes more a matter of gun fit, the 40 is a little shorter providing for a slightly smaller grip while the .45 is a little longer and maybe fatter. The most economical centerfire is a 9mm and it is an acceptable defensive arm. Surplus ammo is down right cheap and with good expanding bullets it gives up little for protection. Considering the lesser recoil and noise compared to the .40 and .45 ACP, it may be a better choice if you are going to be able to practice only a time or two a month.
In any event, a gun should not be your first line of defense. Adequate outside lighting, elimination of hiding spots near the house, not leaving items like bikes, lawn mowers, trimmers, etc laying around in the yard, good locks on doors and windows, and actually USING them will go much further than a gun. A yappy dog is also a good deterent regardless of size as noise is the enemy of any intruder.
Every one needs a good 22 plinker, a 357 revolver, and a 45 auto! You'll get there eventually, the order is not too important if your buying one of the latter two for defense purposes first. I like the Colt DA revolvers as of late, but the smiths are nice as well. Plinkers I like the buckmark and Ruger. 22a by smith feels too bulky in my hand, and I have big hands.. Make sure to check the trigger pull on any low end plinker prior to purcase, lots of variation out there..
Conversion Kit is a good Idea, but you can always add it later, personally, I would't lower the trigger pull as low on the dresser drawer gun to make it fun enough for 22 plinking/target...
Conversion Kit is a good Idea, but you can always add it later, personally, I would't lower the trigger pull as low on the dresser drawer gun to make it fun enough for 22 plinking/target...
This one closes in about a day. The Colt service DA's are excellent shooters, with out the python price tag... This one has some wear, but should have plenty of service left...
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... m=46961698
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... m=46961698
If that gun goes off below $400 it's a deal. My bet is there will be a flurry of activity in the last hours, but, if you are the high bidder - I hope not! For an idea of prices and values... take a look at GunsAmerica. That's a classified site... not an auction site... and it gives an idea of street value. :wink:
I finally got to run by the store, a Ruger SS GP100 with a 4 or 6 inch barrel is $500. The Scandium S&W is $580. Taurus's .357 was about $430. I also looked at a Ruger Single-Six, SS, 6.5 inch barrel $400. Are these prices too much? I liked the Rugers, but man, are they heavy. The S&W had pretty good balance but I would have to replace the grips quick. Should I think about looking at pawn shop guns or stick with the new ones?
the weight of the gun has a lot to do with how you plan to shoot or carry it. A heavy gun will soak up recoil and allow you to get good follow ups. 100 rnds or more would be no problem for a entry level shooter in a "target weight" gun, if you have the strenght to hold it up.. if not drop down a power factor and get a suitable size gun for you.
Very light weight guns are meant to be carried alot and shot infrequently. Recoil can be brutal to a new shooter in a smaller sized lightened frame with full loads, esp magnums.
You Pay alot to get that light weight. If the gun is a range gun or home defense, then I wouldn't pay the premium for light weight. Now if I were backpacking long distances, that's a different story.
Very light weight guns are meant to be carried alot and shot infrequently. Recoil can be brutal to a new shooter in a smaller sized lightened frame with full loads, esp magnums.
You Pay alot to get that light weight. If the gun is a range gun or home defense, then I wouldn't pay the premium for light weight. Now if I were backpacking long distances, that's a different story.
Those prices seem kind of high but I am not familiar with the gun prices in your area plus I'm a scrounger and am willing to wait until I find what I want for the price I want. I'd look at other sources such as pawn shops, bulletin boards at the range, the classified ads, and other retailers. I have no qualms against getting a used gun and is often what I recommend. On the used market, I would expect to save about $150-200 on the GP 100 and find a K-frame Smith or Ruger Security Six in the $250-$300 range. The Ruger Single Six is a single action gun which means you have to pull the hammer back before shooting it unlike double action revolvers which will fire by just pulling back on the trigger. A double action can usually be fired in single action but not the other way around. the Rugers you looked at are heavy as they are large framed guns, much like the Smith & Wesson N-frames and to a lesser extent the L-frame. This was a common complaint which is why these frames were lightened. The K- and Security sized guns are much lighter and convienient to carry. The Scandium guns are very light weight for ease of carry but can be a handful to shoot. As you have no plans to carry at this time I would save a couple hundred dollars and not get it. As for Taurus, I do not care for them and will not buy them any more. I've had some bad experiences with them though others swear by them. Older stock had some quality control issues which are claimed to be taken care of. There are too many other reliable guns out there for me to spend time figuring out when a non-collectable gun was made, I have better uses for that time.
Ok, thanks guys. Looks like I'll hit the pawn shops and look for a Ruger or S&W medium size frame. I saw some S&W mod. 19s on gunbroker that looked real nice, too. I do want to buy at least one gun from this store I quoted prices from, as I visit about every other week, handle guns and never buy. I don't want him to think I'm just some kid with gun lust.
hogfan81,
you might want to pick up a .22 from them as price differences in these don't seem as extreme. The price variation seems to be about $30 from top to bottom for the same model and features. That is not too much to give to support a business you like. A hundred plus for a centerfire pistol is a bit more than I would give though.
you might want to pick up a .22 from them as price differences in these don't seem as extreme. The price variation seems to be about $30 from top to bottom for the same model and features. That is not too much to give to support a business you like. A hundred plus for a centerfire pistol is a bit more than I would give though.
I'd lean more toward the S&W if it were me. I have a Ruger Sp101, and am happy with it overall, but the trigger is generally better on on the smiths. Also because the trigger group is different on the Ruger, finding someone who knows how to really tune one can be harder. Almost any competent gunsmith can tune a Smith and wesson to be really nice...
Best of luck..
Best of luck..
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