I am looking for an entry level pistol for my wife and I to shoot at the range. What is the consensus of the 9mm Sigma series from S/W? The price seems right, but I also don't want to be that guy who "got what he paid for". Any other suggestions in or around the <$500? I would like an auto loader, not revolver.
S & W Sigma Series
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Springfield XD, and Taurus PT 24/7 PRO
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The trigger is hard but for just plinking it shouldn't be that bad. It takes a little getting used to though.
I picked up one of these in 40 S&W pretty reasonably last spring/summer and it has worked wel for me. I initially had some problemswith feeding and ejecting but a change of magazines solved the problem (a close inspection revealed hairline cracks in the 10 round magazines from an attempt to "convert" them).
Since then I have not fired it extensively but I haven't had any problems in the few hundred rounds I've shot in it. The gun is accurate enough for its intended use, personal protection/duty, and is of reasonable quality for its price. I've seen worse for the $300-330 they sell for.
Since then I have not fired it extensively but I haven't had any problems in the few hundred rounds I've shot in it. The gun is accurate enough for its intended use, personal protection/duty, and is of reasonable quality for its price. I've seen worse for the $300-330 they sell for.
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The newer ones are OK.....except for the heavy trigger pull and the plastic sights can't take much abuse. If they lightened the pull a bit and added heavier duty fixed sights I would consider buying one.
I've seen the frames of the early Sigma's start to split at the seam below the muzzle. If you buy a used one, I would stay away from those.
I've seen the frames of the early Sigma's start to split at the seam below the muzzle. If you buy a used one, I would stay away from those.
I'm going to say Springfield XD. They offer them in 9mm, 40S&W and the newly released 45ACP. I haven't read a single bad review on the XD series, infact all I can seem to find is praise from the people who tested them. Guns&Ammo did a review of the 9mm version and fired 20,000 rounds through it without one malfunction. They covered the gun in mud, froze it in ice, put sand in it, took off all lubrication and dry fired it, submerged it in water and the gun just kept going. I know I really want one 
I agree that the XD is a great pistol and I can not reccomend them enough (I have two and am pining for a third). I also think the Sigma is good enough for an entry level gun that is at least $150 dollars less than the cheapest XD. I find a few other features "better" on the Sigma than on the XD. The first is grip size. The Sigma seems to be not as deep front to back and my wife finds it more comfortable and easier to shoot than the XD. This may be of some imporatnce as the gun is for both husband and wife. Switching to a more rugged sight was much easier on the Sigma and the tritiums I put in could be found plus be found for much cheaper than those for the XD. The Sigma is also a tad smaller than the XD in grip length and gun height which makes for a little easier for concealed carry if that is considered. Even with the smaller overall size, the Sigma has a larger magazine capacity if that is important to you. Also Sigmas can be found fairly inexpensively now, refurbished police trades can be found in the $200-$250 range if one looks a bit. The cheapest I've seen a used XD go for lately was $350 which I snapped up. The trigger pull is not the best but as it isn't a target gun, one can learn to shoot it well enough. For the price difference, one can get a case of ammo and an hour or two with an instructor and be much further ahead than with a "better" pistol.
S&W Sigma is not a bad gun to learn on in 9mm. the trigger pull is heavy and fairly long but when you switch to a gun with lighter trigger pull it will be an easy transition.
I have a 40ve and it has gone bang everytime I pulled the trigger. its a simple pistol copy of the glock in fact S&W got sued.
S&W warranty service is excellent should you ever run into a problem they pay for shipping both ways overnight. they have been known to issue new VE models when old used models ie F or C series have the dust cover split.
I would also recommend looking for a Steyr M9 might be a liquidated model floating around for $300-$350. Steyr M9 was originally built as 40sw pistol then converted to 9mm. its overbuilt.
newer MA1 series go for $400-$450 but some try to get close to retail $500+. Steyr the other Austrian gun maker. all steel on steyr is tennifer treated.
if you go Sigma be Sure to go with VE or GVE model. is a few more like G or E. it will have the rail in the frame with rounded edges to the left right sides of the slide. earlier models were not so great. definately avoid the subcompact sigma's. sigma is made in the USA its amazing the price it sells for. Government has bought 70,000 units in 3 purchases that are going to Afganistan. Government also bought some Ruger P95's going to Iraq. in terms of trigger the Ruger is a step up from the Sigma
XD's are nice for a gun made in Croatia. pay no attention to the U.S.A. on the side thats the trigger action ultra safety assurance or some crap like that. XD is made by IM Metals as HS2000 but SA is contracted to get a special build called the XD. rest of the world knows the gun as HS2000. HS2000's back when imported into the US sold for $200-$250 they got shunned when they were new regarded as CHEAP JUNK! all due to the low price. Americans have no concept of value.
I have a 40ve and it has gone bang everytime I pulled the trigger. its a simple pistol copy of the glock in fact S&W got sued.
S&W warranty service is excellent should you ever run into a problem they pay for shipping both ways overnight. they have been known to issue new VE models when old used models ie F or C series have the dust cover split.
I would also recommend looking for a Steyr M9 might be a liquidated model floating around for $300-$350. Steyr M9 was originally built as 40sw pistol then converted to 9mm. its overbuilt.
newer MA1 series go for $400-$450 but some try to get close to retail $500+. Steyr the other Austrian gun maker. all steel on steyr is tennifer treated.
if you go Sigma be Sure to go with VE or GVE model. is a few more like G or E. it will have the rail in the frame with rounded edges to the left right sides of the slide. earlier models were not so great. definately avoid the subcompact sigma's. sigma is made in the USA its amazing the price it sells for. Government has bought 70,000 units in 3 purchases that are going to Afganistan. Government also bought some Ruger P95's going to Iraq. in terms of trigger the Ruger is a step up from the Sigma
XD's are nice for a gun made in Croatia. pay no attention to the U.S.A. on the side thats the trigger action ultra safety assurance or some crap like that. XD is made by IM Metals as HS2000 but SA is contracted to get a special build called the XD. rest of the world knows the gun as HS2000. HS2000's back when imported into the US sold for $200-$250 they got shunned when they were new regarded as CHEAP JUNK! all due to the low price. Americans have no concept of value.
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I bought a Baby Desert Eagle in 9mm for $389 that is very reliable and simple to clean. Mine was priced low because it was refurbished by the manufacturer, but I highly recommend this gun if you want an introductory 9mm.
My buddy has two sigmas in 9mm one for each hand which I think is a little ridiculous (this isn't a video game) but for the price ($300) I think they are worth it. But you do get what you pay for and they do feel like toys. I know I would never buy one. I would look into an XD or 24/7 first.
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The Sigmas were the first of the Glock clones, and never really made it. Our Highway Patrol went with them when they first came out, but that only lasted for a very short time. Too many problems.
If you want a good reilable automatic (and can't afford a Glock) look at the Rugers. I'd take that over a Sigma any day.
Stay away from Taurus. Quality control is not what it used to be. I got tired of sending mine back. (That runs into real money after a while!)
If you want a good reilable automatic (and can't afford a Glock) look at the Rugers. I'd take that over a Sigma any day.
Stay away from Taurus. Quality control is not what it used to be. I got tired of sending mine back. (That runs into real money after a while!)
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I think its a great gun for the money. Here is a link to a test on one. http://www.gunblast.com/SWSigma9.htm
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I have a Sigma 380 and hate it. For a small gun it will hurt your hand if you shoot a box of shells through it in a sesson. No safety to engage which bothers me. Doesn't jam but I don't use is much. I bought it for PP concealed carry but quit carrying it due to the safety issue. I will not keep a bullet in the chamber so in an emergency I would have to cock it first. The fact that S&W does not offer them anymore should tell you something.
SW still does make them and is one of their most profitable handguns. I've had a 9mm (SW9MMVE) for 8 months with over a thousand rounds through it (often 200 at a time) with no discomfort at all. Its a full size so its actully a decent range pistol. It's also a great carry gun at 24 oz.
As for as the no safety, I carry it hot and have no worries with it. The trigger is about 10 pounds so I don't worry about accidental discharge. Highly recommended.
Mr apathy there is a reason why the govt is ordering and sending os they are cheap and not at all reliable.
UD I agree with you about the XDs and they just don't break as well as being less expensive than the Glocks and others.
Guys there is a reason why the only law enforcement agencies to buy and issue the Sigmas were those who were forced to do so. And as soon as they could, they traded them off. I have never heard of an agency having them and liking them even a little bit, not one.
I have XDs, Glocks Berettas and most of the other top of the line guns in my rental counter. It is not unusual for the XDs to have several hundred thousand rounds through them when we trade them back. Then Springfield refurbishes them and gives us the new gun warranty for a year and we resell them. We have never hada a single complaint with one of these guns and I am certain we have sold 30 to 50 of them over the past 4 or 5 years.
Now we have Glocks that have performed as well with every bit as many rounds and a few of the others also. BUt the XD and the Glock are rented most often and of course have the most rounds through them every day.
As for the Sigma, I would not put one in the counter for sale or for rent.
Just MHO, but backed with actual use of said units.
As mentioned the Sigma can be a less expensive gun to learn or to practice with, but I would not expect much for longevity or resale.
UF
UD I agree with you about the XDs and they just don't break as well as being less expensive than the Glocks and others.
Guys there is a reason why the only law enforcement agencies to buy and issue the Sigmas were those who were forced to do so. And as soon as they could, they traded them off. I have never heard of an agency having them and liking them even a little bit, not one.
I have XDs, Glocks Berettas and most of the other top of the line guns in my rental counter. It is not unusual for the XDs to have several hundred thousand rounds through them when we trade them back. Then Springfield refurbishes them and gives us the new gun warranty for a year and we resell them. We have never hada a single complaint with one of these guns and I am certain we have sold 30 to 50 of them over the past 4 or 5 years.
Now we have Glocks that have performed as well with every bit as many rounds and a few of the others also. BUt the XD and the Glock are rented most often and of course have the most rounds through them every day.
As for the Sigma, I would not put one in the counter for sale or for rent.
Just MHO, but backed with actual use of said units.
As mentioned the Sigma can be a less expensive gun to learn or to practice with, but I would not expect much for longevity or resale.
UF
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All the Sigma does is ripoff Glock.
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Save your money and get something decent, I had a sigme .40 and you would be lucky to hit the back wall of the range. As the saying goes, you get what you pay for. I had some problems with mine and sent it down the road. Nothing worse than having a fun time shooting ruined by an inferior gun.
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9 Posts
I love my Sigma VE, but opinions <ahem> vary. The F series was a flop, so much so that many police agencies won't allow them as service weapons. Then there's the whole Glock and Wesson thing, which most S&W fans hated.
Then Smith retooled the gun: bevelled ejector, accessory rail, tougher springs and a shorter barrel. They called it the VE...a dependable, accurate and lightweight weapon.
I've had mine almost 3 years, and it's great. Fires everytime, never jams, easy to clean, no safety to forget, tough trigger so waistband carry doesn't turn it into a vastecto-mizer, smooth draw, great ergonomics, and it's as accurate as the hand holding it.
I've out shot people firing Glock, Sig, HnK, and Taurus. It's just never let me down.
***If you want knock-down power, hit them with a car...A hole is a hole***
Then Smith retooled the gun: bevelled ejector, accessory rail, tougher springs and a shorter barrel. They called it the VE...a dependable, accurate and lightweight weapon.
I've had mine almost 3 years, and it's great. Fires everytime, never jams, easy to clean, no safety to forget, tough trigger so waistband carry doesn't turn it into a vastecto-mizer, smooth draw, great ergonomics, and it's as accurate as the hand holding it.
I've out shot people firing Glock, Sig, HnK, and Taurus. It's just never let me down.
***If you want knock-down power, hit them with a car...A hole is a hole***
Dealers put these on sale a lot, and with the rebates that S&W has been giving, they are the greatest bargin of all time. Gun on sale for $300-329 + rebate of money or free mags is super deal.
Gun is a great buy on sale, and a solid dependable gun. Trigger is heavy but get a little better with use.
Every one looks down on it, but it works and the ones I have shot fed anything. It's a good med compact size. They are a well kept secret in the gun world. I would give one to a family member without reservation...
Gun is a great buy on sale, and a solid dependable gun. Trigger is heavy but get a little better with use.
Every one looks down on it, but it works and the ones I have shot fed anything. It's a good med compact size. They are a well kept secret in the gun world. I would give one to a family member without reservation...
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