I'm not sure but it would be a fun pistol own if somebody still does. I own a couple top break from the turn of the century but have not shot them. Here's an idea for a throw back reproduction...a top break .32 REM rim fire Bull Dog. I'd buy one.
Top Break Revolvers
Are there any manufacturers who still make top break revolvers? I know Uberti makes reproduction Schofields but I'm more interested in a modern top break like the Webley. I've recently learned that the Webley's are affordable because they have terrible accuracy so I'm looking for new production if possible, preferably in .38 or larger. I've googled the subject and produced nothing.
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If I can't find anything then I'll probably go with the Uberti repro in .45 long colt with a 5 inch barrel.
Do you think that if enough of us email S&W (or other manufacturer) they'll consider making a new one? Maybe we could even start an online petition. :idea:
Do you think that if enough of us email S&W (or other manufacturer) they'll consider making a new one? Maybe we could even start an online petition. :idea:
There's a reason top-breaks went by the wayside, safety. I really doubt the manufacturers could make one lawyer proof .
MarlandS said:There's a reason top-breaks went by the wayside, safety. I really doubt the manufacturers could make one lawyer proof .
I'm not looking for a 44 magnum or anything too powerful for the design. I'd be very happy with a .38 and I think it could be done with the right materials. You are probably right, though. The repro guns may be the best new manufacture option I can find.
The few reproduction guns out there are all there is. The advent of "high pressure" cartridges like the 38 Spl (let alone those of today) at the turn of the last century spelled doom for this action type. The whole locking mechanism of a top break is a very weak design which is stressed not only through the pressures generated by firing the gun but more so due to merely opening and closing the gun, even if one doesn't close the gun with wrist snaps. I have a Webley, an H&R, and several S&W top breaks and the wear is noticeable on all of them even though they haven't been shot much by any of the owners. Modern science has probably developed an alloy that would be just fine with modern cartridges but the operating mechanism still wears excessively fast. To build enough strength the bulk would likely make the S&W X-frame look like a cap gun based on what a Webley (maybe the "strongest" or at least least weak) looks like compared to the others.
Another reason they went the way of the dodo and are as likely to be brought back in any number, is the greater machining and assembling costs. These designs are much more labor intensive and designing one for modern usage would be a major undertaking in design, tooling, and assembly, not to mention money. Top breaks are attention getters but are not practical compared to swing outs.
Another reason they went the way of the dodo and are as likely to be brought back in any number, is the greater machining and assembling costs. These designs are much more labor intensive and designing one for modern usage would be a major undertaking in design, tooling, and assembly, not to mention money. Top breaks are attention getters but are not practical compared to swing outs.
I like them because I think the reloading process is more practical than swing outs. As far as from a design standpoint, I suppose they're not but they sure look cool! I looked on Uberti's website and they sell theirs in .45 long colt and .44/40. Aren't these high pressure cartridges?
Does that mean that just loading and unloading will wear the Uberti's out if subjected to even moderate use?
Does that mean that just loading and unloading will wear the Uberti's out if subjected to even moderate use?
no they aint but the thing is that nowadays we got custom .45LC hunting loads that are more powerful than some .44 magnums and of course there would be some idiot out there that would put one of those custom loads in a top break revolver ment for standard low velocity loads :roll:Fuelburns2 said:I looked on Uberti's website and they sell theirs in .45 long colt and .44/40. Aren't these high pressure cartridges?
honestly yea i kinda think it would be quicker to load one of those types but i know i would be laughed at at a shooting range while loading n unloading it
Sounds like you need to find a new range. Anywhere I go when I bring something unusual it always draws a lot of attention but not ridicule.
lol yea well i guess anything that looks different always gets different types of attention like say for instance when some guy brought a semi auto revolver to the range and everyone was stunned that there was such a thing
I'm trying to imagine that but I can't see what the advantage is. Before anyone comments, I know the top break doesn't offer much advantage if any.
Hypothetically speaking, could a top break be designed like a break action shotgun with a greener crossbolt? All on a smaller scale of course. I've been told that design wears in but not out. It also adds additional strength to the lock up. I would be alright with a top break on the X frame in .38 special, it seems feasable...uglydog said:The few reproduction guns out there are all there is. The advent of "high pressure" cartridges like the 38 Spl (let alone those of today) at the turn of the last century spelled doom for this action type. The whole locking mechanism of a top break is a very weak design which is stressed not only through the pressures generated by firing the gun but more so due to merely opening and closing the gun
i know this question was ment for uglydog but i think il join it too :wink: u might not believe this but most pistol cartridges have more chamber preasure than a 12 gauge and if u dont believe me then take a look at how thin the chamber is on ur 12 gauge :wink: also to in the revolver in question a break open system requires there not to be a top strap over the cylinder and if there is a strap then of course its not solidly attatched to the frame like its suppose to be so thats why those types of guns use such weak cartridges
The old ones had a top strap.
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You're probably right about the higher pressures. I don't know much of anything about cartridge/shell pressure that's why I think it could be done with a large frame in a modern, non-magnum, caliber such as .32.
I was really hoping to find a more modern looking top break that I could shoot the snot out of but the more I look at the Schofield repros the more I like them. I may buy one after all. :wink:
You're probably right about the higher pressures. I don't know much of anything about cartridge/shell pressure that's why I think it could be done with a large frame in a modern, non-magnum, caliber such as .32.
I was really hoping to find a more modern looking top break that I could shoot the snot out of but the more I look at the Schofield repros the more I like them. I may buy one after all. :wink:
o man that is one ugly gun :roll: to be honest i never even really seen one and was just guessin what it looked like by the way u described its opperation
anyways a solid strap would be way more durable
u wanna know something funny bout cartridge/shell presures? did u know that a .22LR (yup thats what i said) has more chamber preasure than a 12 gauge? .22LR=8,000+ psi 12 gauge=5,000+ psi
the reason is cuz there a thing called "nomial preasure" which is different from actual preasure like described above but im not really all that educated on it cuz i aint an engineer but basicly its saying that when u increase the chamber area u can get the same power results from less preasure
an easy example is too look at the skinny tires on a racing bike which hold over 100 psi and then look at the tires on a huge semi truck that only has like 25 or 30 psi
anyways a solid strap would be way more durable
u wanna know something funny bout cartridge/shell presures? did u know that a .22LR (yup thats what i said) has more chamber preasure than a 12 gauge? .22LR=8,000+ psi 12 gauge=5,000+ psi
the reason is cuz there a thing called "nomial preasure" which is different from actual preasure like described above but im not really all that educated on it cuz i aint an engineer but basicly its saying that when u increase the chamber area u can get the same power results from less preasure
an easy example is too look at the skinny tires on a racing bike which hold over 100 psi and then look at the tires on a huge semi truck that only has like 25 or 30 psi
Somehow my response from last night got lost, I'll see what I remember today.
What I have been told and read regarding my own guns is that use will wear on the latching mechanism causing the lock up to loosen. Also, the weight of the barrel, cylinder, top strap, and other assorted parts places a lot of stress on the hinge, wear on which will compound the wear on the latch. A Greener type latch may work on a single shot like the Thompson Center Contender or Encore and I'm sure it has been tried, but it s an impractical mechanism for a revolver. The top breaks were designed to compete with the 1873 Colts as a calvary arm. As this is the blackpowder era, the pressures the gun needed to withstand were not great and the top breaks were adequate for this purpose. The main drawbacks to the top breaks were the weak overall design and that stuck empties were difficult to remove as there was no manually activated extractor pawl. When smokeless powder came into usage, these guns were quickly relegated to wallhangers. I much prefer swing out cylinders as emptying them and reloading is quicker and easier.
The chamber walls of a shogun are "thinner" than a pistol in part because the pressures it needs to contain are much less and the pressures drop off much quicker as a small movement of the ejecta in a shotshell opens up much more volume than a similar distance in a pistol.
As to pressures, Maser is mistaken here. A 22LR has a SAAMI maximum of 24,000 PSI though it generally runs a couple thousand less as a rule. A 12 ga has a maximum operating pressure of 11,500 PSI for the 2 3/4" and 3", 14,000 for the 3 1/2". Typical pressures are more in the high 8,000 - low 10,000 range for the shorter shells. Tire pressures of the tractor trailers and other large vehicles I've driven have been in the 95-110 range, even for my old 3/4 ton pick up.
What I have been told and read regarding my own guns is that use will wear on the latching mechanism causing the lock up to loosen. Also, the weight of the barrel, cylinder, top strap, and other assorted parts places a lot of stress on the hinge, wear on which will compound the wear on the latch. A Greener type latch may work on a single shot like the Thompson Center Contender or Encore and I'm sure it has been tried, but it s an impractical mechanism for a revolver. The top breaks were designed to compete with the 1873 Colts as a calvary arm. As this is the blackpowder era, the pressures the gun needed to withstand were not great and the top breaks were adequate for this purpose. The main drawbacks to the top breaks were the weak overall design and that stuck empties were difficult to remove as there was no manually activated extractor pawl. When smokeless powder came into usage, these guns were quickly relegated to wallhangers. I much prefer swing out cylinders as emptying them and reloading is quicker and easier.
The chamber walls of a shogun are "thinner" than a pistol in part because the pressures it needs to contain are much less and the pressures drop off much quicker as a small movement of the ejecta in a shotshell opens up much more volume than a similar distance in a pistol.
As to pressures, Maser is mistaken here. A 22LR has a SAAMI maximum of 24,000 PSI though it generally runs a couple thousand less as a rule. A 12 ga has a maximum operating pressure of 11,500 PSI for the 2 3/4" and 3", 14,000 for the 3 1/2". Typical pressures are more in the high 8,000 - low 10,000 range for the shorter shells. Tire pressures of the tractor trailers and other large vehicles I've driven have been in the 95-110 range, even for my old 3/4 ton pick up.
So Uglydog, in your opinion will the Uberti or other reproduction revolvers chambered in .45 long colt stand up to moderate use or will they wear and weaken after being shot often?
I shoot at least once every other week and each of my guns is shot at least 50 times per range visit. Let's say I shoot an Uberti top break 24 times a year (twice a month) at 50 bullets each time (1200). In your opinion, would this gun last me many years of use or would I more likely wear it out in less than ten years? I'm seriously considering purchasing one but not as a curiousity or ornament. If the design simply can't handle what I consider normal use for the lifetime of the gun then I can think of several dozen better ways to spent the $700. I take excellent care of my guns and I expect them to perform for me as long as I don't neglect them. Thanks for taking the time to respond Uglydog, I appreciate that you seem to really know what you're talking about and are willing to chime in.
I shoot at least once every other week and each of my guns is shot at least 50 times per range visit. Let's say I shoot an Uberti top break 24 times a year (twice a month) at 50 bullets each time (1200). In your opinion, would this gun last me many years of use or would I more likely wear it out in less than ten years? I'm seriously considering purchasing one but not as a curiousity or ornament. If the design simply can't handle what I consider normal use for the lifetime of the gun then I can think of several dozen better ways to spent the $700. I take excellent care of my guns and I expect them to perform for me as long as I don't neglect them. Thanks for taking the time to respond Uglydog, I appreciate that you seem to really know what you're talking about and are willing to chime in.
lol if im not mistaken i did say that the .22 preasure was 8000+ psi not exactly 8000 :roll: and the same goes with what i said bout 12 gauge shellsuglydog said:As to pressures, Maser is mistaken here. A 22LR has a SAAMI maximum of 24,000 PSI though it generally runs a couple thousand less as a rule. A 12 ga has a maximum operating pressure of 11,500 PSI for the 2 3/4" and 3", 14,000 for the 3 1/2". Typical pressures are more in the high 8,000 - low 10,000 range for the shorter shells.
Fuelburns2,
I am not overly familiar with the Uberti reproduction of the Schofield other than having held one at a shop. Uberti does put out some very nice guns and I would expect it to last at least as long as an original, probably longer. How long that would be I wouldn't guess, too much depends on fitting, individual care and habits, material quality, and luck. Uberti may be able to give an estimate on what they consider the expected lifespan to be. You could ask them how difficult or what needs to be done to repair to the latch mechanism, maybe they will be forthcoming. For better info you should try one of the cowboy action shooting forums like www.sassnet.com. This is their area of expertise and some one much more knowledgeable should help you out.
Maser,
If you are going to throw numbers out, you should at least be in the ballpark, not one half to one third of reality. In the context it was used in this instance someone likely would not get hurt but one does know how others will take it in other instances and potentially get into serious problems. It also helps one's credibility.
I am not overly familiar with the Uberti reproduction of the Schofield other than having held one at a shop. Uberti does put out some very nice guns and I would expect it to last at least as long as an original, probably longer. How long that would be I wouldn't guess, too much depends on fitting, individual care and habits, material quality, and luck. Uberti may be able to give an estimate on what they consider the expected lifespan to be. You could ask them how difficult or what needs to be done to repair to the latch mechanism, maybe they will be forthcoming. For better info you should try one of the cowboy action shooting forums like www.sassnet.com. This is their area of expertise and some one much more knowledgeable should help you out.
Maser,
If you are going to throw numbers out, you should at least be in the ballpark, not one half to one third of reality. In the context it was used in this instance someone likely would not get hurt but one does know how others will take it in other instances and potentially get into serious problems. It also helps one's credibility.
umm... if u havent guessed already i was referring to MINIMUM preasures and not maximum preasures as ur reffering to :roll: u do know that theres low powered loads dont u?uglydog said:Maser,
If you are going to throw numbers out, you should at least be in the ballpark, not one half to one third of reality. In the context it was used in this instance someone likely would not get hurt but one does know how others will take it in other instances and potentially get into serious problems. It also helps one's credibility.
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